Health Packs ++

[Megamixer]

Didn't Duke Nukem Forever steal the regenerating health and two gun limit (whilst also insulting Halo by stating that "power armour is for pussies")?

True but Duke also kicks doors in, throws trophies at aliens and takes the time to relieve himself in the bogs. This is why Duke Nukem Forever is an awesome game.

[The Beans]

So no, I don't hate Health Packs or Regenerating Health. I just hate uncreative developers who'd rather have a marketing list of "selling points" rather than an actual USP of their own. Isn't that what the U in USP is supposed to be? Unique?

Some things work so well in games that they're always going to be copied extensively.

What would you have instead of health packs and regenerating health? What would you have used in the WW2 shooter you mention instead of regenerating health? I'm interested in seeing what you can come up with.
Instant, realistic deaths in such games don't really work. The player would be seeing the Game Over screen far too often.
I think most of the people in here are just talking about single player campaigns when many games these days feature regenerating health to make multiplayer flow better (no single player game has ever offered me anything like the adrenaline rush you get from holding off real players and achieving victory against all the odds while looking through a screen of constant low health red). The single player campaign of something like COD is a side dish really. Well placed health packs in single player can definitely add a strategic element to the game if it's well implemented but in online multiplayer the same sort of thing leads to problems.

[Freestyler]

What would you have instead of health packs and regenerating health? What would you have used in the WW2 shooter you mention instead of regenerating health? I'm interested in seeing what you can come up with.

Erm... In terms of WW2 (or "realistic") shooters I wouldn't mind having to loot the people I've just shot for first aid kits, bandages and whatever. That'd work. Not every soldier should have them, obviously. Maybe a 5% chance per corpse? That'd create some good dramatic tension as you'd never be sure where your next TINY health boost was coming from.

For it to really work you'd have to suffer a slight-to-severe movement/shooting penalty, based on damage. Running around gunning people down left, right and centre when you're on maximum hp shouldn't be the same as if you're on 1hp after all. Developers just need to make it interesting without being punishing.

I think most of the people in here are just talking about single player campaigns when many games these days feature regenerating health to make multiplayer flow better (no single player game has ever offered me anything like the adrenaline rush you get from holding off real players and achieving victory against all the odds while looking through a screen of constant low health red). The single player campaign of something like COD is a side dish really.

Yeah, what I described above definitely wouldn't work in Multiplayer. It'd be open to some astonishing abuse. The "workaround" for me would have to come via Game and Gameplay rather than some contrived and unworkable proposition. Like how I personally favour the Counter Strike: Source model over CoD/BF3:


In Counter Strike (when it's not heavily infested with cheats ) You get one life. You get shot and it's bye-bye. Wait for the next round. You get a MASSIVE dose of player guilt, as you've very definitely let your team down, especially if you've been pissing about like an idiot. So your life means something. There's no "Whoops! I fucked up! Time to grab a quick Health Pack!" You pay for that mistake. You pay in full.

If the only "deterrent" is some insubstantial "Kill-Death" ratio then there's nothing to lose. No strategy or teamwork is needed because there's no actual point. Playing Tactically actually reduces your effectiveness, since it's all about the fast kill. Just run about killing and getting killed, over and over and over and over.... Death holds no fear, because you're a 5 second respawn away!

To be clear I'm not saying all shooters should have the CS: Source model, God no. That'd be just as tedious as them all suffering from a stupid arbitrary two-weapon limit. I'd just like a little more creativity in my shooter.




How about an American Revolution Shooter where the guns are friggin' awful and you can barely hit a target ten feet away? Guns that can kill you in a single hit, but takes five whole seconds to reload? Guns that kick up a load of smoke and obscure the nasty drawn-out gleeful stab-fest that melee combat would have to become?

Both of you miss with your shots? Then either stand there for 5 seconds reloading or close in for the kill with your trusty stabbing knife....

[che_don_john]

I think Resistance Fall of Man had it nailed; a health bar divided into quarters, with each quarter able to generate, but also requiring health packs to restore lost quarters. A nice blend of the two.

As for straight-forward health pack healing, Left 4 Dead is a good recent example of it being done well.

[Freestyler]

Or how about a Vampire-style Shooter, where you play as a vampire? You shoot and claw away as normal, but the only way to get health back is to suck the blood of your victims!

The catch is while you're "drinking" you're completely exposed and vulnerable. You'd have to weigh the cost of the HP restore against the chance you'll get capped in the back of your skull while you're bent over drinking. Plus, since Vampires can live indefinitely you could practically set the levels anywhere you wanted. It wouldn't have to be the same old overly familiar Gothic type setting.

See? Plenty of ideas out there!

[Matt_B]

America's Army has neither health packs nor regenerating health. You can patch someone up and stop them from bleeding to death if you're a field medic, but any wounds remain for the duration of the scenario.

Suffice it to say that this is perhaps a bit too realistic and generally hasn't caught on.

[Negative Creep]

Didn't Duke Nukem Forever steal the regenerating health and two gun limit (whilst also insulting Halo by stating that "power armour is for pussies")?

True but Duke also kicks doors in, throws trophies at aliens and takes the time to relieve himself in the bogs. This is why Duke Nukem Forever is an awesome game.

I still haven't played it, but despite all the terrible reviews I must admit I am tempted

[Freestyler]

Didn't Duke Nukem Forever steal the regenerating health and two gun limit (whilst also insulting Halo by stating that "power armour is for pussies")?

True but Duke also kicks doors in, throws trophies at aliens and takes the time to relieve himself in the bogs. This is why Duke Nukem Forever is an awesome game.

I still haven't played it, but despite all the terrible reviews I must admit I am tempted

It's down to a fiver now, everywhere you go. You might even be able to get it even cheaper.

For me - once a game hits that magical "Fiver" price - I can let a lot of problems slide. Games that would ordinarily get a 40% review for example aren't anywhere near as bad when it's the cost of a Subway sandwich and drink. I'll buy it for a fiver, and as long as I feel I've gotten a fiver's enjoyment out of it I'll be happy.

Plus, it keeps the name alive until the real Duke game comes out. Which was probably the intention all along.

[Negative Creep]

It's down to a fiver now, everywhere you go. You might even be able to get it even cheaper.

For me - once a game hits that magical "Fiver" price - I can let a lot of problems slide. Games that would ordinarily get a 40% review for example aren't anywhere near as bad when it's the cost of a Subway sandwich and drink. I'll buy it for a fiver, and as long as I feel I've gotten a fiver's enjoyment out of it I'll be happy.

Plus, it keeps the name alive until the real Duke game comes out. Which was probably the intention all along.

I would say you've twisted my arm and I've just bought it, except Play.com doesn't appear to be working at the moment

[Hitman_HalStep]

Or how about a Vampire-style Shooter, where you play as a vampire? You shoot and claw away as normal, but the only way to get health back is to suck the blood of your victims!

The catch is while you're "drinking" you're completely exposed and vulnerable. You'd have to weigh the cost of the HP restore against the chance you'll get capped in the back of your skull while you're bent over drinking. Plus, since Vampires can live indefinitely you could practically set the levels anywhere you wanted. It wouldn't have to be the same old overly familiar Gothic type setting.

See? Plenty of ideas out there!

that's similar to latest the space marine game,your armour shield would regenerate but your health bar would not (unless activating limited rage),the only way to do that is to stun an enemy and perform a finisher which adds health but leaves you open to attack while your stuck in the animation.

[Negative Creep]

Or how about a Vampire-style Shooter, where you play as a vampire? You shoot and claw away as normal, but the only way to get health back is to suck the blood of your victims!

The catch is while you're "drinking" you're completely exposed and vulnerable. You'd have to weigh the cost of the HP restore against the chance you'll get capped in the back of your skull while you're bent over drinking. Plus, since Vampires can live indefinitely you could practically set the levels anywhere you wanted. It wouldn't have to be the same old overly familiar Gothic type setting.

See? Plenty of ideas out there!

Bloodrayne?

[Freestyler]

See? Plenty of ideas out there!

Bloodrayne?

I've never played it.

I heard the movie was absolutely atrocious so I never bothered to get it.

[Megamixer]

See? Plenty of ideas out there!

Bloodrayne?

I've never played it.

Well Bloodrayne isn't an FPS but it does have the bloodsucking to restore health and some third-person gunplay (as well as awesome slow-mo). I'm a big fan of both games on the PS2 even though technically they aren't amazing games per se.

I think you'd do well to check out the vampire FPS Darkwatch on PS2/Xbox. Really can't remember if you drink blood to restore health or not though I remember there being a neat section where you have to hide in dark areas for your health to regenerate. It was a decent game but no classic in my own opinion so I sold it a long time back.

[nakamura]

Loved Darkwatch!!!

[Megamixer]

Loved Darkwatch!!!

Oh how I wanted to feel the same! I loved the vampire theme but the story was utter cack and as an FPS, it paled compared to other games. It didn't necessarily do anything wrong but it also didn't outshine other stuff in the genre if you know what I mean. I think it might have been much better as a third-person shooter or something.

Then again, I like the Bloodrayne games so what do I know?